The topic of the last issue of Blockchain was “Sharding technology of Ethereum”. We exchanged our views and opinions on many technical details of sharding scheme through the translation of technical instructions shared by Teacher Yang Zhen.
The topic of discussion in this issue of Blockchain is “whether the public chain must issue coins, and how should tokens be understood?” , Mr. He Qiang, a special guest, introduced tokens to everyone and answered their questions.
Topic: Whether the public chain must issue coins, how to understand the Token?
Time: May 26 (Saturday) 9 PM -10 PM
Special guest: He Qiang
Discussion content:
What is a Token? The most important application of blockchain is the direct flow of value over the Internet. ** Through tokenization of physical or virtual assets, the chain of assets can realize the liquefaction of assets, and can directly conduct cross-border, short-term and low-cost asset trading and transfer through the network. ** Many people translate tokens as “tokens”, but tokens should actually be translated as “tokens”. Token is a negotiable encrypted digital proof of interest.
Does the public chain have to issue tokens? ** If there is no Token, the public chain is a distributed ledger, only for bookkeeping, ** public chain will develop very difficult without Token, but this does not mean that the public chain must issue coins, again, Token ≠ coin.
What is a good token?
Tokens can be broadly divided into three categories. The lowest level is the so-called junk Token. Such as all kinds of air coins, chicken rib coins, dwarf coins and so on. It has no value. There are many such tokens in the current market, so investors need to keep their eyes peeled.
The second type is common tokens. Now there are a few landing projects such as membership currency, integral currency and so on. That’s a matter of opinion. Some people think it’s worth investing in, some people think it’s not.
The third and most valuable category is the value Token. These have investment value.
Investment value of the Token, at least three in one.
First, property rights, which represent access rights, deliverable products or services. This is the foundation that people can use.
Second, the nature of currency, which is negotiable, at least within the ecosystem, is hard currency. That’s the foundation people want to hold on to.
Third, equity attribute, can be added value, long-term earnings can be predictable, large room for appreciation.
A truly powerful Token must touch on a deep productive relationship.The combination and landing of token and project still need to be explored.
Discussion: a memoir
Hi, everyone. At 9:00 PM on Saturday, HiBlock Blockchain community special program “All Say Blockchain” will meet you on time. I am Peiyao, the host.
Blockchain is initiated by HiBlock blockchain community. Every Saturday at 9:00 PM, a discussion on blockchain related topics is organized within the community to deepen the understanding of blockchain among community members.
V God once said: A good Token system should be able to create a positive incentive mechanism to increase the user’s time of holding coins, so that the price of coins will rise, thus strengthening the “expectation of price rise” of coin holders, resulting in a positive cycle, and the price rise will be positively amplified. The reverse is also true. If a Token system fails to create an incentive mechanism for users to hold coins for longer, then it will enter a negative cycle and the price decline will be negatively amplified.
Public chain must issue money? How does blockchain produce tokens? Is the token really valuable and how is its value reflected? What model can meet the needs of the coin circle and chain circle? Does the token reward mechanism really meet the market demand?
The topic of this issue of Blockchain is “Token technology in blockchain”, and you can share your views and insights on this topic.
Next, welcome to this special guest He Qiang, who will lead us to talk about Token~~
@Heqiang: Good evening. The new issue of Blockchain is here again. In this installment, we will discuss the Token technology in blockchain with you. In the first 30 minutes, we will give you a brief introduction to what tokens are and how they exist in blockchain. For the next 30 minutes, we can discuss and talk freely.
@He Qiang: First question 1: What is Token? As long as you know something about blockchain, you will know that the most important application of blockchain is the direct circulation of value on the Internet. ** Through tokenization of physical or virtual assets, the chain of assets can realize the liquefaction of assets, and can directly conduct cross-border, short-term and low-cost asset trading and transfer through the network. ** Many people translate Token as “Token”. I prefer the version translated by Mr. Yuan Dao — “Token”.
He Qiang: Let me interrupt the introduction of Mr. Yuan Dao. Mr. Yuan Dao’s real identity is Chen Sheng, founder and chairman of 21Vianet Data Center, the largest telecom neutral IDC operator in China. When it comes to blockchain, which calls for innovation, disruption and passion, he prefers the name yuandao.
I’m particularly reluctant to use the word Token, because not all tokens have the nature of money, and of course, tokens with the nature of money are not necessarily only the nature of money. **Token is a negotiable encrypted digital proof of interest. ** What does this mean? It means that all kinds of certificates of equity (equity, bonds, points, notes, etc.) in the real world can be tokenized and circulated in the digital world, which is too big to imagine.
IBM introduced a LAN protocol called Token Ring Network. Each node in the network passes a token in turn, and only the node with the token can communicate. So this token is essentially a right, or a proof of interest. This is also one of the reasons for the origin of the Token.
To illustrate some common examples in our daily life, when you were in school, you bought a meal ticket to the canteen, a membership card to the barber shop, and a car wash card to the car wash shop, all of which can be interpreted as tokens.
Victor: All human property rights in the physical world can be tokenized on the blockchain through the gateway. The key is what kind of human property rights have tokenized value
Heqiang: In the context of the digital economy, tokens are similar to the currency used for circulation in the blockchain ecosystem, namely tokens. For example, bitcoin and Ethereum are tokens. Victor: That’s right. We’ll talk about that a little bit later.
He Qiang: Back to our question, ** in the public chain, is it necessary to have Token? If there is no Token, does the public chain still have value? ** What do you think about this issue?
Tao Feixiang: Look at the field.
@Heqiang: @Shanghai-Pingan-Taofeixiang is both right and wrong. First, what would a public chain look like without Token? Without tokens, the public chain is a distributed ledger. Pure distributed ledger, just for bookkeeping purposes. But why do we have a public link? What is the purpose of the common chain?
One person’s Journey: Immutable, an advantage over a central ledger.
@Heqiang: We say that to be a successful public chain, we need a mechanism to ensure that everyone is active and enthusiastic to continuously participate in the development of the public chain. Bitcoin is the prime example.
@Heqiang: Bitcoin could not have developed to what it is today without the continuous input and participation of many mine owners and miners.
@One person’s journey: Yes, without rewards, there would be no computing power, no tampering.
He Qiang: Inspired by Bitcoin, Ethereum designed a new blockchain from the bottom and made the blockchain programmable, bringing new functions to the blockchain. Since then, the price has increased by 40 times. Therefore, we can think that without the Token, the significance of the existence of the public chain is greatly reduced. The background to this question is complicated, but it’s actually more about economics. Bitcoin could not have developed as far as it has without the continued commitment and involvement of many mine owners and miners.
Jacky Wu: What’s the difference between a blockchain token and some centralized community token?
Victor H Lotte: A public chain without tokens is castrated. Just like calling on everyone to learn from Lei Feng, it is impossible to make a big business.
@Ye Zi: How to understand that Jack Ma and Warren Buffett both said bitcoin is a bubble? Token appreciation is based on the participation of more people, a bit like a stock, but there is a physical company behind the stock that is creating profits. What is behind these coins? Lots of leeks?
@Heqiang: In the community, many people believe that the creation of Bitcoin has solved a profound problem in the fields of economics and computer science, which makes Satoshi Nakamoto the first person to be qualified to win both the Nobel Prize in Economics and the Turing Prize. Although it is a bit exaggerated, but carefully consider the reasons behind it is still reasonable.
He Qiang: From the perspective of implementation, Token is a piece of code in essence, not currency. Token The uniqueness of a piece of code is ensured by blockchain’s distributed accounting technology. Blockchain tokens are well known because of Ethereum, which developed the ERC20 standard, which allowed individuals to issue their own tokens on Ethereum based on this standard, and tokens became popular.
Jacky Wu: I think bitcoin is a relatively simple blockchain that can be an independent world.
He Qiang: Tokens need to be distributed via Initial Coin offerings (I-C-O), which means crowdfunding, by issuing new cryptocurrency or tokens to support fund projects. An Initial Public Offering similar to a stock. Many communities use tokens as proof of interest to conduct ICOs, a large number of ICOs, resulting in the emergence of this coin that coin.
Jacky Wu: It feels very difficult to design a public link that can relate to your daily life. Probably more opportunities in the alliance chain.
Jacky Wu: If there is a real chance to make alliance chain, the future may shift from decentralization to centralization again.
Teacher He Qiang: The ecosystem of coin circle and chain circle is indeed very different. Coin circle Token needs to open a separate topic chat. Today we are talking about tokens for the first time.
@One person’s Journey: I don’t think blockchain is fully functional without tokens.
He Qiang: If you want to know more about the economics behind Token, I suggest you read the description of productivity and production relations in Das Kapital. Tokens are supported by the principles of Token economics. A truly powerful Token must touch on a deep productive relationship. The key to the relationship of production is “ownership of means of production”, which inevitably involves equity, but this is not the equity under the traditional concept of joint-stock company system.
He Qiang: What is the relationship of production? The encyclopedia says: Productive relations, the social relations that people form in the production of material things. The form of ownership of means of production is the most basic and decisive relation of production. Ownership of means of production refers to the economic relations that people form in the ownership, possession, domination and use of means of production. .
Timothy: I am designing the token economy system in my project. I feel there is a lot of room for innovation, but there is still a lack of theoretical guidance.
Xiaolu: I have a question. Let’s remove the part of coin speculation. Blockchain is a form of signature storage information. I can use paper to record by hand print, and I can use USB disk to record and signature notarization.
Victor: @Xiaolu ** divides information into three levels of attributes: valuable + those that need to be proved before they can be used + Data represents the use of personnel property rights that go around and around. ** Remove any of these attributes, and there are far better technologies than blockchain to satisfy them. However, so Far only has blockchain technology that simultaneously satisfies the three points. Not all information/data is necessary or valuable to link up and most of it is bullshit.
Timothy: Are there any theoretical guidelines and best practices for token economy design?
Jacky Wu: There is no blockchain.
@Huanghe: Can there be chain without currency, Mr. He?
A Person’s Journey: When it comes to economics, there must be a lot of economic concepts.
@Heqiang: @Huanghe We have been weakening the concept that Token is coin. Do you mean have chain without Token?
@ xyy… : What does token need to know for a developer or programmer?
Jacky Wu: Right. Can public chain be tokenless?
@Huanghe: Tokens are different from coins. I asked about coins.
@Heqiang: Can public chain without token ==== public chain without token is a distributed ledger, without token, it will be difficult to grow. Death is not an absolute certainty, but it makes blockchain much less powerful. Coin and Token are different. That’s why I said the coin circle is very different from the chain circle.
Jacky Wu: A lot less power is putting it mildly.
@Heqiang: You can understand Coin as a form of Token. But the maintenance and development of Coin is quite different from that of regular tokens. The principle is the same, if you have a public chain like Bitcoin but no coin, I think it basically won’t work.
Jacky Wu: Are there any relatively successful applications of the public chain? Except for Bitcoin.
@Heqiang: The public chain is still in the early stage of development and has not been finalized yet. Last time Bob also posted about the 25 public chains that exist today.
LEO: Public chain has no token who will make consensus for you! The electricity bill of the computer is also quite a lot! Private chain enterprises had a demand he can not token.
He Qiang: There are many participants in Ethereum and EOS.
He Qiang: Let’s go back to this question. Some people say that ARTIFICIAL intelligence represents future productivity and blockchain represents future production relations. How do you understand that? We have all seen artificial intelligence. Google’s Alpha Go has beaten human beings, and Now Alpha Zero has been able to learn without supervision. I have not seen the substantial change of blockchain, but to say change is to make many people restless and dream of getting rich overnight
@Heqiang: There are many changes here. Let me give you a simple example as a primer. For example, when you transfer money to others, you need to have a social relationship with the bank. But now if you send him money via Bitcoin, your relationship with the bank is gone
Bitcoin is not like a stock. Bitcoin is more like gold.
Jacky Wu: The token is to solve the incentive problem, otherwise it cannot maintain the operation of the public chain. Anarchism has always been the dream of a few people. Everyone enjoys the convenience brought by the government, but cares about the freedom of the anarchism. When one day realizes anarchism, will miss the past. It may be true that the world will be divided for a long time.
@Huanghe: I agree. I feel that many people in the coin circle have never learned economics.
Jacky Wu: I think the public chain will not be big for a long time. There is no need to make it big all at once. Don’t worry about bringing revolution. Think of Satoshi Nakamoto urging against over-enthusiasm for bitcoin.
He Qiang: Bitcoin is a special phenomenon. There is more to the story and explanation of the economics involved. In short, you have to think about why do so many people around the world believe bitcoin is going up? Li Xiaolai, Xue Manzi, Xu Xiaoping, are the essence of the people, why they also believe in bitcoin. There are only two possibilities. Either the people who invest in Bitcoin are crazy, or the rest of us are stupid.
@ leaves: gold is at the very least is all countries without any communication natural regarded it as a common currency consensus, and verified through thousands of years, what makes COINS, and currency depends for fire up is not his ideas of decentralized, although this idea is very cow force, but the fire is simply because the Chinese found speculative value, stir up 90% of the mining machines are said to be in China.
@He Qiang: There are more reasons behind this problem. If you are interested, we can arrange a separate discussion topic.
Jacky Wu: One will make a million bones! They’re already at the top of the food chain, and there’s no way to know if they’re doing what they preach.
@He Qiang: The fact that these people are sparing no effort to advocate bitcoin also shows that bitcoin is successful in design.
Jacky Wu: Yes. In fact, I admire Satoshi nakamoto has not appeared, which makes bitcoin become a religion
@A person’s journey: Bitcoin takes advantage of people’s selfishness to protect the security of the network. Selfishness is to get more bitcoins for blocks, which naturally requires more computing power, so that bitcoins become more and more secure.
@Heqiang: Maybe it’s a bit one-sided to use the word selfish. This is actually a special mechanism of Bitcoin, which determines its value through “influence”, selfishness is only one aspect.
Cynthia: “The best thing about Bitcoin is the use of human greed to build trust” basically refers to the mining mechanism that allows nodes to voluntarily maintain the bitcoin network by investing more computing power in getting more rewards for blocks.
A person’s journey: it is actually unconscious.
@Heqiang: I flipped it up and saw this question: I have a question, let’s remove the part of coin speculation, blockchain is a form of signature storage information, I can use paper to record by hand print, I can use USB disk record with signature notarization, why must use blockchain?
@Heqiang: This question is very representative, many people should have this idea, in fact, this question is our thousands of years of development history. In fact, the so-called signature and calligraphy means that ordinary people press their handprints. Later we began to do online banking, began to have U shield this thing, is the description: I use U disk record plus signature notarization can also.
Li Tianxue: The secret of currency issuance is a top secret of the government.
@Heqiang: The most difficult question is not a secret question, the most difficult question is how do you make everyone believe. These solutions solve a storage problem, but all require institutional endorsement (i.e., a centralized organization to organize and conduct).
Victor: “The most difficult question is not a secret question. The most difficult question is how do you make everyone believe it?” Isn’t that what digital signatures are for?
He Qiang: Digital signature is just a technology. Currency issuance is not a technical matter. Think about it, if a new country was created and it issued a currency, how would the world recognize it and start circulating it?
Timothy: A digital signature just proves you did it, but it doesn’t prove you did it right.
@Heqiang: So, with all this we still need blockchain for many reasons.
Victor: How do you prove right or wrong?
@Heqiang: For example, some things cannot be accomplished by centralized organization. (I don’t buy the argument that dark web demand is driving bitcoin’s growth.)
Timothy: @South Victor double flower is wrong.
@Heqiang: For example, some things are safer and more efficient under a decentralized organizational structure. This is also a demand. I don’t have time to talk about this. Let’s briefly talk about the levels of tokens. The lowest level is the so-called junk Token. Such as all kinds of air coins, chicken rib coins, dwarf coins and so on. It has no value. There are many such tokens in the current market, so investors need to keep their eyes peeled. The second type is common tokens. Now there are a few landing projects such as membership currency, integral currency and so on. That’s a matter of opinion. Some people think it’s worth investing in, others think it’s not. The third and most valuable category is the value Token. These have investment value.
@Heqiang: Note that we are talking about investment value, not price. Value and price are two different things. Investment value of the Token, at least three in one.
First, property rights, which represent access rights, deliverable products or services. This is the foundation that people can use.
Second, the nature of currency, which is negotiable, at least within the ecosystem, is hard currency. That’s the foundation people want to hold on to.
Third, equity attribute, can be added value, long-term earnings can be predictable, large room for appreciation. That’s what people are willing to invest in and work with to grow this thing. It’s a circular process. You have to get investors to agree that it’s valuable, and then you buy and sell it, and then it’s valuable. @Timothy I don’t know if you understand that
“A digital signature just proves you did it, but it doesn’t prove you did it right.” “How can something be proven right or wrong?” is “How can something you do be proven right or wrong by blockchain?” Double flower is wrong, and in most cases it is common sense that everyone knows it is wrong without blockchain proof
@Joseph: @He Qiang how to judge these three attributes?
Timothy: @He Qiang valuable token, three rights in one, but these three rights have contradictory properties? For example, the currency attribute requires a relatively stable value, while the equity attribute hopes to increase as much as possible. How should the token be designed to avoid these contradictions?
@Heqiang :@Timothy this could take days to discuss… The question is not so straightforward.
Timothy: Yeah, I’ve been working on it for a long time.
He Qiang: The value of a Token like Bitcoin is measured by its influence.
Timothy: There doesn’t seem to be an accepted best practice that anyone can emulate. Bitcoin is no longer a currency. It’s more of a commodity.
He Qiang: Imitation needs to be careful. The danger is to imitate the skin without knowing why.
Cynthia: “The value of token should ultimately be equal to the value of the project” I heard yesterday at Blockathon. The price of coin is affected by too many factors and there is a cognitive bias. Therefore, the next topic can consider how to evaluate the value of the token. At present, too much attention should be paid to the currency, but more attention should be paid to the project itself, what problems to solve and what value.
@Yan Yan: Thank you, Teacher He Qiang, for your sharing. Today, let’s stop here and continue to digest it. The content of the discussion will be precipitated and published in the public number, and you can leave a message at the end of the article if you want to ask
The theme of the next issue has not yet been determined, and the special guests have not yet been determined, you are welcome to recommend yourself, or recommend ~ Next Saturday at 9pm, we will be there or square ~
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